听雨
Full Member
Posts: 221
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 3, 2017 2:08:34 GMT -5
Post by 听雨 on Jun 3, 2017 2:08:34 GMT -5
一从陶令评章后,千古高风说到今.
孤标傲世偕谁隐?一样开花为底迟?
醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情!
如花如人。
|
|
|
Post by 溪山 on Jun 3, 2017 21:06:41 GMT -5
咏 菊 潇湘妃子 无赖诗魔昏晓侵,绕篱欹石自沉音。 毫端蕴秀临霜写,口角噙香对月吟。 满纸自怜题素怨,片言谁解诉秋心? 一从陶令评章后,千古高风说到今。
Celebrating the Chrysanthemums by River Queen Down garden walks,in search of inspiration, A restless demon drives me all the time; Then brush blooms into praises, and the mouth Grows acrid-sweet, hymning those scents sublime. Yet easier 'twere a world of grief to tell Than to lock autumn's secret in one rhyme. That miracle old Tao did once attain; Since when a thousand bards have tried in vain. TRANSLATED BY DAVID HAWKES
林妹妹又辛苦了!献花。 今年天气变化无常,我后院的菊花竟开了几朵。 “毫端蕴秀临霜写,口角噙香对月吟。” --- 说的就是美静呀。 这一联还真难译。中英差别太大。文字美有时只能原汁原味欣赏。 满纸自怜题素怨,片言谁解诉秋心? Yet easier 'twere a world of grief to tell Than to lock autumn's secret in one rhyme. 我喜欢这句译文。 秋+心=愁
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 4, 2017 18:36:13 GMT -5
Post by 静水无痕 on Jun 4, 2017 18:36:13 GMT -5
"文字美有时只能原汁原味欣赏。" 太对了。 美溪一口一个林妹妹,殊不知俺是射手座的,是性格和林妹妹最不沾边的星座。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 4, 2017 20:45:40 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 4, 2017 20:45:40 GMT -5
"文字美有时只能原汁原味欣赏。" 太对了。 美溪一口一个林妹妹,殊不知俺是射手座的,是性格和林妹妹最不沾边的星座。
|
|
|
Post by 静水无痕 on Jun 5, 2017 15:53:54 GMT -5
一从陶令评章后,千古高风说到今. 孤标傲世偕谁隐?一样开花为底迟? 醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情! 如花如人。 也很喜欢这几首咏菊诗。以前用硬笔抄录过,贴来大家一乐。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 5, 2017 16:01:29 GMT -5
Post by 静水无痕 on Jun 5, 2017 16:01:29 GMT -5
"文字美有时只能原汁原味欣赏。" 太对了。 美溪一口一个林妹妹,殊不知俺是射手座的,是性格和林妹妹最不沾边的星座。 忘语君一定觉得溪才女更林妹妹一些, 对吧
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 6, 2017 5:57:54 GMT -5
Post by oldperson on Jun 6, 2017 5:57:54 GMT -5
一从陶令评章后,千古高风说到今. 孤标傲世偕谁隐?一样开花为底迟? 醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情! 如花如人。 也很喜欢这几首咏菊诗。以前用硬笔抄录过,贴来大家一乐。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 6, 2017 5:59:55 GMT -5
Post by oldperson on Jun 6, 2017 5:59:55 GMT -5
你和太阳君的字都是从小练的吧?
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 6, 2017 6:14:30 GMT -5
Post by oldperson on Jun 6, 2017 6:14:30 GMT -5
查了一下百度,我也是射手座,很多分析不适合我,比如我是宅男,不好动。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 6, 2017 22:33:15 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 6, 2017 22:33:15 GMT -5
"射手女有火一样的热情,她就像一簇热烈的火焰" ---- 美静如水如火。 查了下自己的星座,吓一跳。 美静的字飘逸窈窕,如人。:) 忘语君笑我“原汁原味”之说。 故人君爱思考,属于“知本家”,听影评听来的新词。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 7, 2017 18:40:00 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 7, 2017 18:40:00 GMT -5
静水辛苦了, 多谢! 霍克斯的诗译非常巧妙,节奏感尤其好! 汉语非常节俭,英译既要信达雅,又要控制字数,不容易。 花谢花飞飞满天,红消香断有谁怜? 游丝软系飘春榭,落絮轻沾扑绣帘。 The blossoms fade and falling fill the air, Of fragrance and bright hues bereft and bare, Floss drifts and flutters round the Maiden's bower, Or softly strikes against her curtained door. 花谢花飞飞满天,红消香断有谁怜? --- 这两句各有主语。霍译变为一句simple sentence。 虽然没有直译"有谁怜", 但 bereft of .... 暗含怜惜之意。 游丝软系飘春榭,落絮轻沾扑绣帘。 --- 这两句对仗也各有主语。霍译也是转为一句由三个动词组成的简单句。 意思到了就好了,我个人以为。但若细究,游丝与落絮一样么?嗯,就是想弄明白中文意思。 但若细究,游丝与落絮一样么?嗯,就是想弄明白中文意思 -----溪上君思路敏捷,厉害!
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 7, 2017 19:50:35 GMT -5
静水无痕 likes this
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 7, 2017 19:50:35 GMT -5
《葬花词》(节译)- 曹雪芹 花谢花飞飞满天,红消香断有谁怜? 游丝软系飘春榭,落絮轻沾扑绣帘。 A Verse by Cao Xueqin (A Song of Flowers’ Funeral) The falling petals fly high all over the sky, For their faded red and fragrance who else would cry? The soft threads of cobwebs dangle from the arbor, The catkins dab the broidered curtains on the sly. Tr. Wangyu
|
|
|
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 8, 2017 8:21:37 GMT -5
《葬花词》(节译)- 曹雪芹 闺中女儿惜春暮,愁绪满怀无着处。 手把花锄出绣帘,忍踏落花来复去? A Verse by Cao Xueqin (A Song of Flowers’ Funeral) Spring spirits that fizzle out increase maiden’s grief, My breastful of pent-up woe pines for a relief. Oping the curtains, a rake in hand I walk out, How could I trample on petals that on ground sheaf? Tr. Wangyu
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 8, 2017 21:09:42 GMT -5
静水无痕 likes this
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 8, 2017 21:09:42 GMT -5
《葬花词》(节译)- 曹雪芹 三月香巢初垒成,梁间燕子太无情! 明年花发虽可啄,却不道人去梁空巢已倾。 A Verse by Cao Xueqin (A Song of Flowers’ Funeral) A cozy nest of flowers is just built this spring Twixt the beams by the swallow, such a heartless thing! The flowers will bloom next year, but willn't the maiden, To the dumped nest only will the empty beams cling. Tr. Wangyu
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 0:19:38 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 9, 2017 0:19:38 GMT -5
《葬花词》(节译)- 曹雪芹 花谢花飞飞满天,红消香断有谁怜? 游丝软系飘春榭,落絮轻沾扑绣帘。 A Verse by Cao Xueqin (A Song of Flowers’ Funeral) The falling petals fly high all over the sky, For their faded red and fragrance who else would cry? The soft threads of cobwebs dangle from the arbor, The catkins dab the broidered curtains on the sly. Tr. Wangyu really beautiful!
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 0:26:32 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 9, 2017 0:26:32 GMT -5
《葬花词》(节译)- 曹雪芹 三月香巢初垒成,梁间燕子太无情! 明年花发虽可啄,却不道人去梁空巢已倾。 A Verse by Cao Xueqin (A Song of Flowers’ Funeral) A cozy nest of flowers is just built this spring Twixt the beams by the swallow, such a heartless thing! The flowers will blossom next year, but not the maiden, To the dumped nest only the empty beams will cling. Tr. Wangyu “新春三月燕子噙来百花,散着花香的巢儿刚刚垒成。梁间的燕子啊,糟蹋了多少鲜花多么无情!”--- from the net. A cozy nest of flowers is just built this spring Twixt the beams by the swallow, such a heartless thing! --- maybe the words can be rearranged a bit to better convey the meaning? just my two cents. :)
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 0:30:22 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 9, 2017 0:30:22 GMT -5
《葬花词》(节译)- 曹雪芹 三月香巢初垒成,梁间燕子太无情! 明年花发虽可啄,却不道人去梁空巢已倾。 A Verse by Cao Xueqin (A Song of Flowers’ Funeral) A cozy nest of flowers is just built this spring Twixt the beams by the swallow, such a heartless thing! The flowers will blossom next year, but not the maiden, To the dumped nest only the empty beams will cling. Tr. Wangyu “新春三月燕子噙来百花,散着花香的巢儿刚刚垒成。梁间的燕子啊,糟蹋了多少鲜花多么无情!”--- from the net. A cozy nest of flowers is just built this spring Twixt the beams by the swallow, such a heartless thing! --- maybe the words can be rearranged a bit to better convey the meaning? just my two cent. :) Any suggestion then ?
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 0:31:57 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 9, 2017 0:31:57 GMT -5
I am still cudgling my brains for a much better version ....
new version for fun....
the swallow built a nest betwixt the beams this spring left ruinate flowers behind, what a ruthless thing the flowers will bloom next year, but willn't the maiden to the dumped nest only will the lifeless beams cling
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 23:45:59 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 9, 2017 23:45:59 GMT -5
the swallow built a nest betwixt the beams this spring left ruinate flowers behind, what a ruthless thing --- "left ruinate flowers behind" -- with plucked flowers?
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 23:50:45 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 9, 2017 23:50:45 GMT -5
the swallow built a nest betwixt the beams this spring left ruinate flowers behind, what a ruthless thing --- "left ruinate flowers behind" -- with plucked flowers? 我的含义是 黛玉 heartb-broken...听说宝玉和宝钗结婚(订婚?)所以来个 left ruinate flower behind...,你觉得呢?当然,with plucked flowers 没错,非常好!
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 9, 2017 23:52:39 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 9, 2017 23:52:39 GMT -5
我是按字面意思, 用花瓣筑巢。 你脑袋比较弯弯绕。哈哈。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 10, 2017 2:29:48 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 10, 2017 2:29:48 GMT -5
我是按字面意思, 用花瓣筑巢。 你脑袋比较弯弯绕。哈哈。 哈哈哈,那里那里,译诗难就难在这里,哈哈哈
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 11, 2017 18:25:59 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 11, 2017 18:25:59 GMT -5
问 菊 潇湘妃子欲讯秋情众莫知,喃喃负手扣东篱。 孤标傲世偕谁隐?一样开花为底迟? 圃露庭霜何寂寞?雁归蛩病可相思? 莫言举世无谈者,解语何妨话片时?
Questioning the Chrysanthemums Since none else autumn's mystery can explain, I come with murmured questions to your gate: Who, world-disdainer, shares your hiding-place? Of all the flowers why do yours bloom so late? The garden silent lies in frosty dew; The geese return; the cricket mourns his fate. Let not speech from your silent world be banned: Converse with me, since me you understand! 菊 梦 潇湘妃子 篱畔秋酣一觉清,和云伴月不分明。 登仙非慕庄生蝶,忆旧还寻陶令盟。 睡去依依随雁断,惊回故故恼蛩鸣。 醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情!
The Dream of the Chrysanthemums
Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. Well, if immortal, I'll go seek old Tao, Not imitate Zhuang's flittering butterfly! Following the wild goose, into sleep I slid; From which now, startled by the cricket's cry, Midst cold and fog and dying leaves I wake, With no one by to tell of my heart's ache.
TRANSLATED BY DAVID HAWKES
这两首诗译漂亮! 莫言举世无谈者,解语何妨话片时? Let not speech from your silent world be banned: Converse with me, since me you understand! --- 与菊对语,何不是自言自语! 人最终是与自我对话。 篱畔秋酣一觉清,和云伴月不分明。 Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. --- 秋酣 autumn bed; 不分明 seem。 这样处理倒是省字。妙! 醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情! Midst cold and fog and dying leaves I wake, With no one by to tell of my heart's ache. --- rearrange 原句词序,又不失其意。 突然想到俚语Indian summer,意思其一是秋老虎,其二则是人生临终前一段短暂的好时光。秋菊盛于秋霜,黛玉以菊自比,凄美。美丽将终结于象征死亡的寒冬。。。。 多谢美静!
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 11, 2017 19:29:36 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 11, 2017 19:29:36 GMT -5
问 菊 潇湘妃子欲讯秋情众莫知,喃喃负手扣东篱。 孤标傲世偕谁隐?一样开花为底迟? 圃露庭霜何寂寞?雁归蛩病可相思? 莫言举世无谈者,解语何妨话片时?
Questioning the Chrysanthemums Since none else autumn's mystery can explain, I come with murmured questions to your gate: Who, world-disdainer, shares your hiding-place? Of all the flowers why do yours bloom so late? The garden silent lies in frosty dew; The geese return; the cricket mourns his fate. Let not speech from your silent world be banned: Converse with me, since me you understand! 菊 梦 潇湘妃子 篱畔秋酣一觉清,和云伴月不分明。 登仙非慕庄生蝶,忆旧还寻陶令盟。 睡去依依随雁断,惊回故故恼蛩鸣。 醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情!
The Dream of the Chrysanthemums
Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. Well, if immortal, I'll go seek old Tao, Not imitate Zhuang's flittering butterfly! Following the wild goose, into sleep I slid; From which now, startled by the cricket's cry, Midst cold and fog and dying leaves I wake, With no one by to tell of my heart's ache.
TRANSLATED BY DAVID HAWKES
这两首诗译漂亮! 莫言举世无谈者,解语何妨话片时? Let not speech from your silent world be banned: Converse with me, since me you understand! --- 与菊对语,何不是自言自语! 人最终是与自我对话。 篱畔秋酣一觉清,和云伴月不分明。 Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. --- 秋酣 autumn bed; 不分明 seem。 这样处理倒是省字。妙! 醒时幽怨同谁诉:衰草寒烟无限情! Midst cold and fog and dying leaves I wake, With no one by to tell of my heart's ache. --- rearrange 原句词序,又不失其意。 突然想到俚语Indian summer,意思其一是秋老虎,其二则是人生临终前一段短暂的好时光。秋菊盛于秋霜,黛玉以菊自比,凄美。美丽将终结于象征死亡的寒冬。。。。 多谢美静! 篱畔秋酣一觉清 ---感觉是秋梦醒来后头脑清晰? light-headed = dizzy ?
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 11, 2017 22:50:21 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 11, 2017 22:50:21 GMT -5
忘语君读得仔细,赞! :) 篱畔秋酣一觉清, 和云伴月不分明 -- "秋酣一觉清", 网上的解释是秋菊酣睡,梦境清幽。 诗题是“菊梦”, "秋酣一觉清" 释为睡意昏昏,和下句的“不分明”倒也相应? Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. 霍克斯这首诗译每行十音节。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 11, 2017 23:00:57 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 11, 2017 23:00:57 GMT -5
忘语君读得仔细,赞! :) 篱畔秋酣一觉清, 和云伴月不分明 -- "秋酣一觉清", 网上的解释是秋菊酣睡,梦境清幽。 诗题是“菊梦”, "秋酣一觉清" 释为睡意昏昏,和下句的“不分明”倒也相应? Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. 霍克斯这首诗译每行十音节。 老霍的译功没得说!不过严格来讲第一行的 篱畔 和第二行的 云 漏译了,当然不影响读者对整首译诗的欣赏。译诗必须要做到本身就是一首独立的诗。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 11, 2017 23:12:49 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 11, 2017 23:12:49 GMT -5
忘语君读得仔细,赞! :) 篱畔秋酣一觉清, 和云伴月不分明 -- "秋酣一觉清", 网上的解释是秋菊酣睡,梦境清幽。 诗题是“菊梦”, "秋酣一觉清" 释为睡意昏昏,和下句的“不分明”倒也相应? Light-headed in my autumn bed I lie And seem to chase the moon across the sky. 霍克斯这首诗译每行十音节。 我试译了一下前四句,请溪山君批评斧正! By bamboo fence while in my autumn tipsy snooze I feel as if my soul the cloud and moon pursues Such divine feeling doth not ape Zhuang’s butterfly But old Tao and his sublime spirit seeks and woos 每行十二音节
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 11, 2017 23:23:08 GMT -5
Post by 忘言忘语 on Jun 11, 2017 23:23:08 GMT -5
following the wild goose --- 特选单数有何特意呢?
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 12, 2017 1:12:10 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 12, 2017 1:12:10 GMT -5
老霍的译功没得说!不过严格来讲第一行的 篱畔 和第二行的 云 漏译了,当然不影响读者对整首译诗的欣赏。译诗必须要做到本身就是一首独立的诗。 是,以诗译诗。 逐字翻译,可能会减弱韵律感。 对不懂汉语的老外而言,可读性可能更重要。
|
|
|
蒋勋说红楼梦
Jun 12, 2017 1:36:51 GMT -5
Post by 溪山 on Jun 12, 2017 1:36:51 GMT -5
|
|