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Post by 溪山 on Sept 18, 2022 12:38:27 GMT -5
Homework assigned by 邊君 ( 忘語君:絕句 – (宋)陳師道): 《芙蓉楼送辛渐二首(其一)》 唐.王昌龄. 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 Farewell to Xin Jian at the Lotus Tower by Wang Changling of Tang Dynasty The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- My heart is in a jade pot pure as moon bright Tr. Xishan
多謝陽光君! 真是學者風範。 再試: 《芙蓉楼送辛渐二首(其一)》 唐.王昌龄 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 Farewell to Xin Jian at the Lotus Tower by Wang Changling of Tang Dynasty The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- Like ice in th' jade pot my heart is pure and upright Tr. Xishan
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 18, 2022 22:01:59 GMT -5
Homework assigned by 邊君 ( 忘語君:絕句 – (宋)陳師道): 《芙蓉楼送辛渐二首(其一)》 唐.王昌龄. 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 Farewell to Xin Jian at the Lotus Tower by Wang Changling of Tang Dynasty The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- My heart is in a jade pot pure as the moon bright Tr. Xishan 啊哟,我怎么敢布置“作业”呢?就是想看看你们怎么译的啊! The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- My heart is in a jade pot pure as the moon bright 还是溪山厉害,我再次领教!
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Post by rovi297 on Sept 18, 2022 22:06:12 GMT -5
芙蓉楼送辛渐二首 (其一) 唐.王昌龄.
寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。
Farewell to Xin Jian on Hibiscus Tower by Wang Changling
In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu, The dawn sees you off, thus with me only Mt. Chu. Should Luoyang kith and kin ask about me, please tell... My heart, like pure ice in a jade pot, clear and true.
Tr. Wangyu
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 18, 2022 23:22:55 GMT -5
邊君謬讚了。 哈哈,忘語君好譯! 欣賞了! 還是忘語君厲害仔細! kith and kin --- 冰心 --- 我把冰漏了。 ice in a jade pot 。 另,有說『玉壺』指月亮,也有道理。故我用了bright moon.
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 19, 2022 8:26:21 GMT -5
芙蓉楼送辛渐二首 (其一) 唐.王昌龄. 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 Farewell to Xin Jian on Hibiscus Tower by Wang Changling In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu, The dawn sees you off, thus with me only Mt. Chu. Should Luoyang kith and kin ask about me, please tell... My heart, like pure ice in a jade pot, clear and true. Tr. Wangyu 哈哈,wu/chu/true, night/sight/bright,殊途同归。多谢二位。
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 19, 2022 8:28:21 GMT -5
What does kith and kin mean? friends and relatives old-fashioned. : friends and relatives. They invited all their kith and kin to their new home.
赏学了!
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 19, 2022 23:39:38 GMT -5
這首是名詩, 許淵沖應該譯過。等我有空查下。 中文同西語是不同體系,加上解讀不同,譯文五花八門。馮友蘭在《中國哲學簡史》中提到語言障礙,很有意思。
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Post by rovi297 on Sept 21, 2022 20:47:22 GMT -5
邊君謬讚了。 哈哈,忘語君好譯! 欣賞了! 還是忘語君厲害仔細! kith and kin --- 冰心 --- 我把冰漏了。 ice in a jade pot 。 另,有說『玉壺』指月亮,也有道理。故我用了bright moon. 以往都是“望文生義”,一直都把 玉壺 當 玉壺,現在知道也能指代 明月 了,以後再有靈感時候可以再來一版就可以轉換為 明月。
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 21, 2022 23:09:25 GMT -5
我最後一句原本只有明月,後來貪心,臨時加上玉壺。 找到了許淵沖先生的譯本: Farewell to Xin Jian at Lotus Tower Wang Changling A cold rain mingled with East Stream invades the night At the dawn you leave the Southern hills lonely in haze If my friends in the North should ask if I'm all right My heart is free of stain as ice in crystal vase
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 26, 2022 8:19:16 GMT -5
我最後一句原本只有明月,後來貪心,臨時加上玉壺。 找到了許淵沖先生的譯本: Farewell to Xin Jian at Lotus Tower Wang Changling A cold rain mingled with East Stream invades the night At the dawn you leave the Southern hills lonely in haze If my friends in the North should ask if I'm all right My heart is free of stain as ice in crystal vase 维基:许渊冲(1921年4月18日-2021年6月17日),男,汉族,江西南昌人,中国翻译家,北京大学教授。从事文学翻译长达六十余年,译作涵盖中、英、法等语种,翻译集中在中国古诗英译,形成韵体译诗的方法与理论,有“诗译英法唯一人”之称。 我怎么觉得他的“冰心、玉壶”句并不比你们几位翻译得更好一些呢?在我看来,这“My heart is free of stain as ice in crystal vase”就少了一点韵味。
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Post by rovi297 on Sept 26, 2022 19:30:31 GMT -5
在一般情況下,我個人覺得文學和翻譯作品的共同特點就是 one man's meat, another man's poison.
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 26, 2022 23:50:20 GMT -5
Haha, I concur. A question of taste -- it applies to everything.
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Post by Immanuel on Sept 28, 2022 2:46:25 GMT -5
分享一下笔记:
本解:
芙蓉楼:原名西北楼,登临可以俯瞰长江,遥望江北,在润州(今江苏省镇江市)西北。据《元和郡县志》卷二十六《江南道·润州》丹阳:“晋王恭为刺史,改创西南楼名万岁楼,西北楼名芙蓉楼。”
楚山:楚山:楚地的山。这里的楚也指镇江市一带,因为古代吴、楚先后统治过这里,所以吴、楚可以通称。
冰心:比喻纯洁的心。
玉壶:道教概念妙真道教义,专指自然无为虚无之心。陆机《汉高祖功臣颂》有“心若怀冰”句,比喻心地纯洁。鲍照《白头吟》:“直如朱丝绳,清如玉壶冰。”也是以“玉壶冰”比喻清白的操守。唐人有时也以此比喻为官廉洁,如姚崇《冰壶诫》序云“夫洞澈无瑕,澄空见底,当官明白者,有类是乎?故内怀冰清,外涵玉润,此君子冰壶之德也”。
附解:
1. 晋 王嘉《拾遗记.魏》:“文帝所爱美人,姓薛名灵芸……咸熙元年,谷习出守常山郡,闻亭长有美女而家甚贫。时文帝选良家子女以入六宫,习以千金宝赂聘之,既得,乃以献文帝。灵芸闻别父母,歔欷累日,泪下沾衣,至升车就路之时,以玉唾壶承泪,壶则红色。既发常山,及至京师,壶中泪凝如血。”
2. 南朝宋 ·鲍照 《白头吟》诗:“直如朱丝绳,清如玉壶冰。何惭宿昔意,猜恨坐相仍。人情贱恩旧,世路逐衰兴。毫发一为瑕,丘山不可胜。”
3. 玉壶冰: 唐诗中常用的典故,故当有确定的语境和意义,多指爱情或友情的纯洁真挚或为官清廉操守。唐 ·李白:“白玉壶冰水,壶中见底清。” 唐 ·李白:“白玉壶冰水,壶中见底清。” 唐·李商隐:“空余双玉剑,无复一壶冰。” “空余双玉剑,无复一壶冰。”
4. 未知何因至宋诗词中始以冰壶代月:宋 ·范成大:“今夕何期,披岫幌云关重启,引冰壶素空似洗。”宋·李居仁:“霜裳缟夜,冰壶凝露,红尘洗尽。”宋·陈与义:“小斋剧冰壶,中明外无罅。” 宋 ·钱惟演:“沃顶几思金掌露,涤烦谁借玉壶冰。”宋 · 陆游:“渴解似尝仙掌露,魂清如近玉壶冰。”
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Post by Immanuel on Sept 28, 2022 2:55:30 GMT -5
鸡蛋里挑骨头。。:) “In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu,” Obviously the author is seeing a friend off, rather than traveling on the river himself.
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Post by Immanuel on Sept 28, 2022 3:33:08 GMT -5
继续写笔记:
冰壶诫(并序)
(姚崇(650年~721年),本名元崇,字元之。陕州硖石(今河南省陕州区)人。唐朝名相、著名政治家,嶲州都督姚懿之子。曾任武后、睿宗、玄宗三朝宰相常兼兵部尚书。)
冰壶者,清洁之至也,君子对之,示不忘乎清也。夫洞澈无瑕,澄空见底,当官明白者,有类是乎?故内怀冰清,外涵玉润,此君子冰壶之德也。 玉本无瑕,冰亦至洁,方圆相映,表裹皆澈:喻彼贞廉,能守其节。凡今之人,就列称臣,当官以害剥为务,在上以财贿为亲。岂异夫象之有齿,以焚其身;鱼之贪饵,必曝其鳞?故君子让荣不忧,辞满为珍,以备其德,以全其真。与其浊富,宁比清贫?吴隐酌泉,庞参致水,席皮洗帻,缦袍空里,虽清畏人知,而所知远矣。嗟尔在位,禄厚官尊,固当耸廉勤之节,塞贪竞之门。冰壶是对,炯诫犹存,以此清白,遗其子孙。
=====
此诗作于王昌龄任江宁丞期间(约741—747)。昌龄官江宁丞之日,因晚年不拘小节, “谤议沸腾”再起,处于众口交毁的恶劣环境中。
王昌龄在开元十五年,应进士试时一举登第,被授予秘书省校书郎。之后于开元二十二年再应博学宏词科的考试,并再次登第。然而,二次登第后官职却未见升迁,仅被授予祀水尉。科场颇为得意,仕途却明显失意,而且在他做了五年祀水尉后,又被远贬荒僻的岭南,任江宁丞。这首诗就是他在赴江宁丞任前写的。
(https://www.163.com/dy/article/FTDV7P3H054450VL.html)
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Post by rovi297 on Sept 28, 2022 6:07:04 GMT -5
鸡蛋里挑骨头。。:) “In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu,” Obviously the author is seeing a friend off, rather than traveling on the river himself. 以馬君批評得對。一般來說,入吳是指雨與江水入吳,我看了百度給出的一個解讀版本後覺得似乎也說得通。
白话译文 其一 冷雨洒满江天的夜晚,我来到吴地,天明送走好友后,只留下楚山的孤影。 到了洛阳,如果有亲友向您打听我的情况,就请转告他们,我的心依然像玉壶里的冰一样纯洁,未受功名利禄等世情的玷污。
也就是說 王 為了趕到 芙蓉樓,連夜乘船 入吳...
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 28, 2022 20:52:42 GMT -5
鸡蛋里挑骨头。。:) “In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu,” Obviously the author is seeing a friend off, rather than traveling on the river himself. 这骨头挑得好!
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 28, 2022 20:57:08 GMT -5
鸡蛋里挑骨头。。:) “In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu,” Obviously the author is seeing a friend off, rather than traveling on the river himself. 以馬君批評得對。一般來說,入吳是指雨與江水入吳,我看了百度給出的一個解讀版本後覺得似乎也說得通。
白话译文 其一 冷雨洒满江天的夜晚,我来到吴地,天明送走好友后,只留下楚山的孤影。 到了洛阳,如果有亲友向您打听我的情况,就请转告他们,我的心依然像玉壶里的冰一样纯洁,未受功名利禄等世情的玷污。
也就是說 王 為了趕到 芙蓉樓,連夜乘船 入吳...
忘语君解释也通,这里的关键是缺乏主语,此乃“中文常不举主语”所致。
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 28, 2022 23:51:59 GMT -5
多謝陽光君! 真是學者風範。 "未知何因至宋诗词中始以冰壶代月" -- 受教! 再試: 《芙蓉楼送辛渐二首(其一)》 唐.王昌龄 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 Farewell to Xin Jian at the Lotus Tower by Wang Changling of Tang Dynasty The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- Like ice in th' jade pot my heart is pure and upright Tr. Xishan
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Post by Immanuel on Sept 29, 2022 14:02:14 GMT -5
鸡蛋里挑骨头。。:) “In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu,” Obviously the author is seeing a friend off, rather than traveling on the river himself. 以馬君批評得對。一般來說,入吳是指雨與江水入吳,我看了百度給出的一個解讀版本後覺得似乎也說得通。
白话译文 其一 冷雨洒满江天的夜晚,我来到吴地,天明送走好友后,只留下楚山的孤影。 到了洛阳,如果有亲友向您打听我的情况,就请转告他们,我的心依然像玉壶里的冰一样纯洁,未受功名利禄等世情的玷污。
也就是說 王 為了趕到 芙蓉樓,連夜乘船 入吳...
这个解得好!当为正解。本人冒昧了。学而不精,是为疏狂。 王昌龄时任职江宁。辛渐当为洛阳旧识,到江宁探望作者。二人结伴同行,与夜雨中浮江而下至镇江。饯别于芙蓉楼。辛渐随后渡江取大运河径至洛阳。此唐时水路大概也。尚有待查。
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 29, 2022 17:23:50 GMT -5
讀古詩比讀莎士比亞還難啊。 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。全诗意思及赏析芙蓉楼送辛渐二首 王昌龄 其一 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 其二 丹阳城南秋海阴,丹阳城北楚云深。 高楼送客不能醉,寂寂寒江明月心。 创作背景这组诗大约作于天宝元年(742年)王昌龄出为江宁(今南京)县丞时。王昌龄开元十五年(727)进士及第;开元二十七年(739年)远谪岭南;次年北归,自岁末起任江宁丞,仍属谪宦。辛渐是王昌龄的朋友,这次拟由润州(今镇江)渡江,取道扬州,北上洛阳。王昌龄可能陪他从江宁到润州,然后在此分手。这两首诗当为此时所作。 作品鉴赏这两首诗所记送别的时间和情景是“倒叙”。第一首写的是第二天早晨在江边送别友人的情景;第二首写第一天晚上在芙蓉楼为友人饯行之事。
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Post by 边 草 on Sept 29, 2022 20:36:06 GMT -5
人说有时需抛砖才能引玉,我手里没有砖,斗胆开口索译,承蒙各位捧场,让我收到四个版本,各有千秋,可对我却一如甘露春风,受益匪浅。再次叩谢! The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- My heart is in a jade pot pure as moon bright溪山版 In cold night rains, the river brings me to the Wu, The dawn sees you off, thus with me only Mt. Chu. Should Luoyang kith and kin ask about me, please tell... My heart, like pure ice in a jade pot, clear and true. 忘语版 The chill rains come and shroud the Wu rivers at night Seeing you off at dawn leaves Wu hills a lone sight Should family and friends in Luo-yang ask about me -- Like ice in th' jade pot my heart is pure and upright溪山(修改)版 A cold rain mingled with East Stream invades the night At the dawn you leave the Southern hills lonely in haze If my friends in the North should ask if I'm all right My heart is free of stain as ice in crystal vase 许大师(渊冲)版 In cold night rains, the river brings us to the Wu, The dawn sees us part, only me now with Mt. Chu. Should Luoyang kith and kin ask about me, please tell... My heart, like clear ice in a jade pot, pure and true. 忘语(修改)版
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Post by 溪山 on Sept 30, 2022 23:47:50 GMT -5
受益匪淺,多謝邊君和各位!
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Post by rovi297 on Oct 4, 2022 22:23:14 GMT -5
以馬君批評得對。一般來說,入吳是指雨與江水入吳,我看了百度給出的一個解讀版本後覺得似乎也說得通。
白话译文 其一 冷雨洒满江天的夜晚,我来到吴地,天明送走好友后,只留下楚山的孤影。 到了洛阳,如果有亲友向您打听我的情况,就请转告他们,我的心依然像玉壶里的冰一样纯洁,未受功名利禄等世情的玷污。
也就是說 王 為了趕到 芙蓉樓,連夜乘船 入吳...
这个解得好!当为正解。本人冒昧了。学而不精,是为疏狂。 王昌龄时任职江宁。辛渐当为洛阳旧识,到江宁探望作者。二人结伴同行,与夜雨中浮江而下至镇江。饯别于芙蓉楼。辛渐随后渡江取大运河径至洛阳。此唐时水路大概也。尚有待查。 二人结伴同行,与夜雨中浮江而下至镇江。饯别于芙蓉楼。----根據這個考證,那麼我應該把原來的 me 改為 us... 然後再思考改進第二句,使第一句與第二句在時間上能夠銜接得更好些。
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Post by rovi297 on Oct 4, 2022 22:43:25 GMT -5
芙蓉楼送辛渐二首 (其一) 唐.王昌龄.
寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。
Farewell to Xin Jian on Hibiscus Tower by Wang Changling
In cold night rains, the river brings us to the Wu, The dawn sees us part, only me now with Mt. Chu. Should Luoyang kith and kin ask about me, please tell... My heart, like clear ice in a jade pot, pure and true.
Tr. Wangyu
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Post by 溪山 on Oct 9, 2022 2:36:14 GMT -5
"寒雨连江夜入吴", 只看一句,兩種解讀應該都可以, 雨入吳,或人入吳。 但是《芙蓉楼送辛渐》有二首,其二是頭天晚上饯行。雨大該是後來下的?
芙蓉楼送辛渐二首 王昌龄
其一 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。
其二 丹阳城南秋海阴,丹阳城北楚云深。 高楼送客不能醉,寂寂寒江明月心。
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Post by 边 草 on Oct 9, 2022 6:00:31 GMT -5
"寒雨连江夜入吴", 只看一句,兩種解讀應該都可以, 雨入吳,或人入吳。 但是《芙蓉楼送辛渐》有二首,其二是頭天晚上饯行。雨大該是後來下的? 芙蓉楼送辛渐二首 王昌龄 其一 寒雨连江夜入吴,平明送客楚山孤。 洛阳亲友如相问,一片冰心在玉壶。 其二 丹阳城南秋海阴,丹阳城北楚云深。 高楼送客不能醉,寂寂寒江明月心。 好了,现在这样细究就越来越远意思了。这让我想到了直到去年中秋我才弄明白那句“不应有恨,何事长向别时圆”的意思。也是因为却主语,而我呢,一直没有仔细想过究竟是人“不应有恨”还是月亮“不应有恨”的问题。 还有,“破船载酒泛中流”中的泛字,它可以通“河”吗?虽然我知道河水常常会“泛”滥的。这种情况下在翻译时就必须先弄清楚的,我以为。
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Post by 溪山 on Oct 9, 2022 12:12:38 GMT -5
Newton's First Law of Motion, the law of inertia also applies to humans. 有外力推才會多動下腦筋。 破帽遮颜过闹市,漏船载酒泛中流。 ---- "泛" 對 "過", 應當是動詞吧?
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Post by 溪山 on Oct 9, 2022 12:43:18 GMT -5
另外,發現唐代詩也有以玉壺指代月亮:
《海上生明月》 朱华
皎皎秋中月,团圆海上生。 影开金镜满,轮抱玉壶清。 渐出三山岊,将凌一汉横。 素娥尝药去,乌鹊绕枝惊。 照水光偏白,浮云色最明。 此时尧砌下,蓂荚自将荣。
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Post by rovi297 on Oct 9, 2022 17:09:06 GMT -5
Newton's First Law of Motion, the law of inertia also applies to humans. 有外力推才會多動下腦筋。 破帽遮颜过闹市,漏船载酒泛中流。 ---- "泛" 對 "過", 應當是動詞吧? 對,應該是動詞,表示 漂浮在 ...上面。
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